the president of antifa retweeted this
> “Order Without Rulers”
> drawn with a compass and rulerits not a ruler, it’s a collab with straight edge!
It’s bittersweet to think that this comment will never get the recognition it deserves for being genius, but at least I was here to see it.
Don’t cry because it’s over, smile because it happened.
Ah, but ask yourself this: is that ruler ruling over you, or are you ruling the ruler, effectively making that ruler a ruler in name only?
If the ruler is a tool that you use, this is good.
If the ruler is a tool that uses you, this is bad.
If you slant rhymed “ruler” and “tool”, I could see this in a spoken word piece
The concept of Anarchist Gatekeeping is mind-blowingly ironic.
I only go for ISO 9001 certified anarchy.
:2000, or :2015?
Going to stop scrolling now because this is it
the aesthetics on the right are better. don’t gatekeep my penmanship
Honestly, they both have an appeal. The left is better for most organizations and looking official. The right has more of a “fuck the system” je ne sais quoi. At a protest? Use the right. Printing out pamphlets? Use the left.
If someone handed me a pamphlet with the left one on it, I’d assume they were a cop.
Greetings fellow lover of anarchy! Here’s a pamphlet about our local anarchist club. Also, have a free Glacier Freeze Gatorade. If you haven’t had a chance, don’t forget to stop by the Antifa™ tent and sign up for their official newsletter.
The left seems impossible to hand draw. If it’s not done perfectly, it just looks bad. On the right, none of the lines are supposed to end at a certain point, so whatever you draw is fine.
Personally I’m more of a skull and crossbones a la Anarchist Ukraine type of guy for official stuff. Also harkens back to the golden age of piracy which is always great.
Eh, the golden age of piracy was just a state sponsored private military trade war. It’s fun for media, but it isn’t what I’d wish for. They weren’t free to do whatever they want. They got paid by states to attack the ships from other states. More anarcho-capitalism than any good form of Anarchism.
Not to say I dislike the symbol or anything. I’m just pointing out that the golden age of piracy probably isn’t what we want to appeal to as Anarchists.
Yea you might want to go read some history on the Golden Age of Pirates and the Flying Gang of Nassau.
The media portrayal of pirates is entirely fictional.
You’re thinking of privateers. Pirates were usually on the bottom wrong of society in an occupation were they could face an enormous amount of abuse if the Captain or Officers were tyrants. Lots of pirates started out as mutineers.
The left one makes me think the Fantastic Four are known as the Avengers in one of those infinite alternate realities we haven’t seen yet.
Strong disagree but I’m not about to piss on anyone’s personal parade, I wish you enjoyment of your preferred aesthetic.
If not sure it’s best to buy an official Anarchy stamp at Your local Walmart.
Is this on the entrance exam for Antifa??
Yes. I failed my entrance exam.
You can still be an antifally
Thanks. Do I get a t-shirt?
Only one with the edgelord version of the logo.
Damnit.
It’s “scrawled” on walls, not “sprawled”
It depends on the size and medium
Does one scrawl or sprawl poo?
Diarrhea + sneeze = sprawl
Diarrhea + dragging one’s bottom across the floor = scrawl
The booty scooty probably works better when you’re pooping solids. I imagine it’s like using pastels.
According to my Nurse Practitioner wife… Yes unfortunately.
I mean, you can do whatever you want.
Part of Anarchy is understanding and accepting that that is a true for all individual life regardless of any laws or guideline.
Consequences come after actions and do not stop committing to an action.
But the more important part is taking this knowledge and asking ourselves, how can we deal with this fact and build a society that respects it while maintaining order?
Part of Anarchy is understanding and accepting that that is a true for all individual life regardless of any laws or guideline.
I feel like this is the crux that I’ve seen people disregarding too often. They know how to make the perfect society, and it only requires everyone else having the same exact ideology and priorities that they do.
Every time I see someone advocating for anarchy on Lemmy (which is a lot), it comes down to “well if everyone works together in harmony and also there are no neighboring states with imperialist intentions, then everything will be great!”. If everyone was perfectly altruistic then literally any government form would work - capitalism, communism, even fascism.
Fascism heavily implies one group specificly not being altruistic. Anarchy is just the trust that we could someday have a society based in kindnes and cooperation. If we could have a try. There are already well working anarchosyndical comunes around the world.
Regardless of semantics, it would “work” if it’s what 100% of the population supported and worked towards. Obviously that’s not the case in reality, but the same applies to anarchism. Anarchism (edit: and fascism, just to be clear) are uniquely vulnerable to bad actors when the reality sets in that not everyone is going to be well intentioned.
Also from a geo-political perspective, anarchism would be exceptionally easy for neighbors with bad intentions (think Russia) to take advantage of.
I don’t understand why people think this is the case, anarchy doesn’t mean we let shit people do shit things. We still fight back, we still kick them out of our communities and we still protect one another. Real world anarchy has a pretty strong history of fighting back and keeping itself safe, the Zapatista still exist, the Spanish anarchists basically just lost a war and that’s not exactly a problem unique to anarchism…
It’s no more vulnerable than other societal structures, it’s significantly less so given the way that corruption is much much hard to get away with given that individual people can’t hold positions of power, only positions of responsibility which may be taken from them at any moment.
It’s not it “would work if,” it does work.
Spanish anarchists lost the war because they were disorganized and vulnerable to external pressure (competing political parties like the Communists at the time) which was half my original point.
Zapatistas exist in the single poorest state in Mexico, which is not exactly a ringing endorsement of the “ideal government form” as many here apparently believe.
I’m having too good of a day to argue about this so believe what you will, it’s no skin off my back. But I’ll say that being poor is not the same thing as being crushed by external forces, I never mentioned anything about anarchy making people rich. Anyway, wealth is literally a meaningless metric to those of us who don’t want or believe in money.
The case of the Spanish collectives is a lot more nuanced than that. Regardless, acting as if being disorganised is a result of anarchism is just silly.
Like I said believe what you want but again, there’s no reason anarchy is any less susceptible to external forces than anything else. It’s just about structuring society and giving a shit about people.
hii, please do not let lemmy comments form your understanding of anarchism. it seems that gave you some wrong ideas. anarchists are not naive or idealistic about people and hierarchical structures.
if you want to learn about anarchism, i can recommend a few video essays which might give you a better understanding of anarchism and might answer your criticism.
- an introduction to anarchism - anark
- human nature - anark
- how would anarchism defend itself? - anark
(full disclosure, i havent watched these videos in a while, and mostly picked them, because i vaguely remember them talking about the topics you mentioned)
all of these videos are by the same person. i think they make some of the best videos about anarchist theory that i know, (and videos are a easy way to get into new things), while also being active on the ground as an anarchist organiser, being able to measure their ideas against their lived reality. i hope you will consider what they have to say
take care :3
That line in particular isn’t an ideology, it’s a fact. Committing murder is illegal, but if I want to, I can still murder someone. More generally, systems can be put into place to prevent behaviour, but anyone can still try to get around them.
(I’m not a full on anarchist since it doesn’t seem practical but I do agree with many of the ideals.)
If there are “consequences” for drawing an anarchy symbol in one way or another, I’m not sure that the person advocating these “consequences” believes that involuntary hierarchy is a bad thing.
I was speaking more general but for that action specifically it seems to the consequences are for some other anarchists to call you an edgdlord and for the mainstream non anarchists crowd to not take you seriously.
They are free to choose wether they care about those.
Sounds like involuntary hierarchy to me! Maybe not on the level of ‘official’ organization, but certainly on the level of gatekeeping and bullying.
As a consequence of me posting my comment, you replied with yours. Are you establishing an involuntary hierarchy by replying? It was me who consented to reading it and responding to it with the full knowledge that as a consequence you will drive this discussion further.
The anarchist principles i choose to follow allow me to accept that other people can choose to not be anarchists.
I am not going to demand that people stop creating involuntary hierarchy because doing so itself would be establishing an involuntary hierarchy.
I chose to belief that with enough time and education eventually all people wil come to realise the communal benefit of a modern anarchist society and chose to become anarchists themselves from their own will.
I also accept that even people who are anarchists can be fickle, especially at certain moments and commit to actions which go against their own principles. So is the case with all human life, i have never met a person who never acts hypocritically to their own ideals. I accept this reality.
That building such further will take longer then i have decades left to live Is but a sad detail that does nothing to change this.
On the one hand, I’ve long said that Skater kids who can’t define Anarchy scrawling the symbol on bus stops in sharpie never does us any favors, on the other hand the top comment isn’t wrong
I have always thought of “anarchy” as “the people organize themselves and shape their own community”.
It means the absence of outside rulers. There can still be rules internally.
Absence of rulers not the absence of rules. Anarchy is the opposite of Hierarchy.
The rules are simply mutually agreed upon arrangements between independent entities, with no one singular entity being able to exert controlling authority over any other.
There is plenty of literature about what Anarchy is as a political system. There are even different subsets of organizational structures, such as syndicalism, but they are all based upon a horizontal structure of authority where power is derived from the bottom up rather than from the top down.
yeah you put it better than i did but the foundational principle is the same
Others’ defined boundaries do not limit your freedom; they merely delineate the point beyond which they will choose to no longer cooperate with you. Those who agree with the sentiment may simply choose of their own free will to refrain from association with you if you are nothing but a shallow and unserious edgelord shithead. If you do not like how people will respond to your behavior, you may wish to consider changing your behavior.
No gods. No kings. No mods. Only the emergent consensus of equal individuals en masse.
Woo account with a caduceus staff background and some new age star of david airs their bias regarding anarchy symbols
DSA lib doubles down on the opinion to imagine a scenario where anarchists behave hypocritically
Yeah I guess this accurately sums up how it feels to be an anarchist on the internet.
So many tears are being shed.
They’re not wrong, but the edgelord comparison and the gatekeeping are just bad.
This guy explains it better than I ever could.
Imagine gatekeeping anarchy…
You can’t make me!
Yeah I’m gonna imagine birds instead
Anarchy means I can do whatever I want, including gatekeeping anarchy itself. That being said, that Rothmus guy is just an unprincipled right-libertarian, and of course he aggrees with fashy abortion bans to “punish the whores for not using condoms”. The whole “prostitutes are using regular abortions as their primary form of birth control” is a lie likely invented by Hungarian far-right blogger and failed gamedev Tamás “Tomcat” Polgár.
Reminds me of how the peace symbol came from an N and D for nuclear disarmament, similar aestheticl
For those who also couldn’t figure it out in your head, it’s apparently semaphore.
Neat. TIL. Thanks.
