WithoutFurtherRelay [they/them, she/her]

I am literally a neurodivergent person talking about how a specific phenomenon on the site makes me uncomfortable because of it’s adjacency to IRL behavior policing of autistic people, and the first thing you go to is basically dismissing everything I’m talking about with this shitty memery, like “touch grass”, “oooh new funny site tagline”, “log out”. Do some self crit (or shut the fuck up)

I made that post after the same thing happening 3 times. Jesus fucking Christ, leave me alone or at least just try and engage with what I said in that post in good faith instead of bullying a comrade for no good fucking reason. Well, at least, I wish you would have before- I deleted the post now because people were bullying UlyssesT too much

Like this is an example of the exact thing I was talking about. You have absolutely no faith that what I say is said legitimately or said with legitimate concern and just go immediately to assuming I’m some outraged, mindless troll that has no stake in the game and are just angry for no reason

Like you literally suggested that something I said in complete earnest should be made a site tagline because it was “le epically funny” that someone was angry about a toxic site culture. Fuck you and shut the fuck up

Aren’t you not supposed to bring struggle sessions to the megathread? At least don’t do it to have some take where you know people won’t have the context to disagree with you

deleted by creator

Fuck you unironically

it got worse when you did rhetorical backflips to simultaneously say you didn’t insult

I LITERALLY NEVER DID, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

If I did this, I didn’t even realize. I know that’s not a great excuse but I legitimately don’t know what you’re even talking about

And all those things you pointed out, yeah? Those were the things I was apologizing for? Except for the “this is not treat defense” thing which is just me saying that I’m not defending a treat because there isn’t a single consumer item I’m actually defending or even care about relative to this conversation?

Does “treat defense” mean something other than someone vehemently defending some sort of piece of media? Like does it just mean anyone angry online? I’m not being sarcastic I might legitimately have just misinterpreted what it meant

WHAT TREAT!??? WHAT TREAT!???

I HAVE NO CONNECTION TO MARVEL, I’VE SAID THAT SO MANY TIMES?

WHAT FUCKING TREAT AM I DEFENDING??

BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IT LOOKS LIKE THE ONLY “TREAT” IM DEFENDING IS MY OWN FUCKING DESIRE FOR INNOCENT RANDOM PEOPLE NOT TO BE INSULTED AND IF THAT MAKES ME A TREAT DEFENDER THAN IM FUCKING PROUD OF IT

IF HAVING FUCKING EMPATHY, EVEN FOR RANDOM FUCKERS WHO LIKE SHOWS I HATE, MAKES ME A TREAT DEFENDER, THEN I’LL BE A TREAT DEFENDER AS MUCH AS I FUCKING WANT, AND YOU’LL FUCKING DEAL WITH IT

I didnt try to dodge any of it. I acknowledged all of it I could think of and left it up explicitly because I wanted to make sure anything I didn’t leave up was left for people to see when I apologized.

What are you even talking about? I have no idea what you think I’m dodging. I know you were linking my comment over and over but I just… didn’t respond because I thought I had already covered it with what I said. I know that’s a dumb way to apologize but I mean I’m not really that smart

I know I should have responded to that individually, at least in retrospect, but my apology was over my general tone and everything. I didn’t know you were angry at me over the three question marks specifically and thought you were just angry about them as an example of the tone I used.

Ok I was trying to be vulnerable and you’re just going all in here.

What the fuck is wrong with you? Do you have any empathy for other human beings whatsoever?

Seriously, Jesus fucking Christ, do some self crit. I was trying to be patient and I still stand by that the way I said what I said was toxic and bad, but holy shit stop being a smug asshole and just… actually care about another person for once. I was angry at you because I legitimately cared about you not being an asshole because I respected you. I don’t see any reason to continue respecting you if you’re not going to be willing to step back and consider why I’m saying what I’m saying here.

Not everyone who gets angry is doing “treat defense”. I’m a human being and the reason I’m getting angry is because I’ve seen numerous times now of people just completely disregarding that what I’m saying has any value whatsoever, while never really explaining why I shouldn’t care. Do you think I just shouldn’t care about how people act to each other online?

Do you really think I’m so stupid that I know that will be used to repress any weird mannerisms or behaviors I accidentally have the moment they show up? I know how this works. I’ve been autistic for literally decades. It’s the same shit people pulled with the furry fandom, it’s the same shit people pulled with videos of kids getting angry online, it’s the same shit people on the internet pull every single day so they can legitimize their desire to repress and control others.

Yeah, I’m pissed about it. Yeah, if the “treat” I’m defending is my own ability to be myself online in a space I like without being ridiculed or made fun of because I made a single misstep and acted “cringe”, then I am a “treat defender”. The fact you can’t even try and realize that the person on the other side of the screen isn’t even trying to defend any piece of media is the most frustrating part of this. I don’t care about marvel, I don’t care about this person’s obsessive interest with marvel, I don’t care about any of that. I just don’t like how toxic this community has become and it’s been getting more and more frustrating with people basically fucking gaslighting me every time I bring up how uncomfortable it is.

I made the edit part after everything else, I only left the rest because 1. I’m tired and yes I honestly should have deleted it and 2. It feels insincere to just have removed it all and then left only the edit

Please, I’m trying to be open here, I really don’t want this to just become an exchange of insults or anger. I’m only arguing about this because I care about your opinion and it legitimately scares me that people like you could just… stop caring about supporting or even being nice to me just because I said something cringe or weird

I know I was hostile. That wasn’t ok. But I was scared, I was angry, and I don’t really know what else to say, I can’t apologize or make it up to you in any way more than I already have. I didn’t delete it because I didn’t want to come across as basically gaslighting you by insulting you and then pretending it didn’t happen, but if you want I can delete all this.

I really don’t want to make you hate me for a prolonged period. I am willing to do anything to try and make it up to you, legitimately. I will delete all of my comments on this post if you want that. I don’t want to be an annoying debate-bro, I just want a community I can feel safe in

Which is why “let people enjoy things” is a meaningless statement when separated from its original context, which is people insulting randos over random shit, which is exactly what is happening here.

It got perverted and used for generic treat defense, as all things eventually do, and of course was rendered completely meaningless in the process, but this does not justify the behavior of attacking those who do not deserve it, instead merely demonstrating how depraved liberals are and to what stretches they will go to prevent their blatant fascist tendencies from being unveiled.

When viewed through this lense, almost all modern usage of this term (notably except the top level comment you replied to) is completely meaningless.

But in this case, it is actually being used in its original intention, or, if it is not it’s original intention (idk I’m no internet history expert), it’s at least being used in a novel and unique way.

This is not “treat defense”. Me and the top level content have no treats they are even defending. Instead, it is “treat criticism”, a criticism of the “treat” of attacking and berating internet randos for no reason. That is a legitimate criticism, and is not a thought terminating cliche. It is a legitimate concern over the absurd toxicity present.

So your answer is apparently to call me “really stupid” for doing that with three question marks, all while presuming I was insulting you, all because you apparently feel so defensive about your treats that criticisms of those treats (or maybe even the bad parts of their fandom) are taken like personal attacks.

I have literally not watched a single marvel movie in what is likely a year and last time I did it was probably because of my family. I literally can’t remember, and I couldn’t give a single fuck about the brand and in fact hate literally all of it and wish it would die.

You are the one acting defensive about having a treat criticized. I have absolutely no stake in Marvel. I do not care about Marvel. What I do care about is my comrades not being asses for no reason, and that is what I’m concerned about. And, unlike consuming terrible slop, insulting people who don’t deserve it is directly harmful behavior.

Actually it kind of is here, especially how you frame it with such excessively ungenerous presumptive portrayal, and declared what you think I thought was “really stupid” with three question marks. You don’t want me to share what I think here, and maybe even don’t want me to think it at all. In other words, you apparently do want my thoughts policed.

The point isn’t that it isn’t a form of verbal suppression (yes, it is, yes, I do think insults against people over things that are not actually harmful should in fact be suppressed), but that it is a blatantly silly thing to consider bad because it is literally just normal social behavior.

Like, honestly, yeah, I’m thought policing, and I’m fine with it. If your treats being criticized and thought policed pisses you off so much maybe you shouldn’t consume them. Or are you going to tell me to just let you enjoy things?

This isn’t town. I don’t give a single fuck if what I’m saying is “authoritarian” or whatever. Unironically, it would make me much happier if you and everyone else were to think of these things in terms of social systems instead of hating random people who mean no harm and probably just like shit because their meemaw said Thor was cool or something, and I am not ashamed of that.

Edit: and I am sorry about the tone of my first comment, and somewhat this one. It isn’t even remotely acceptable. My only excuse is that it seems to be the only way to get through to people online, in my experience. I do respect you and part of why I even bring this up is because I respect you and the rest of the people I’m criticizing over this. I wouldn’t care nearly as much if you were all just random people, but I know for a fact that this can be a kind and caring community and is very often, and I despise what I see as an obstacle to that not being taken seriously, or worse, dismissed out of hand because of the superficial absurdity of it. I know it’s weird to give a fuck about what a bunch of people on the internet say about someone I don’t care about online, but I know that this case is innocent and innocuous enough that it would be trivial for that anger to turn around and target both myself or basically anyone else on here. I don’t want that to be this community and it’s sad to me that I don’t even know how to really communicate that feeling without it being drowned out and lost in the sea of internet irony poisoning and detachment. I will not respond further until I return from logging off, and again I am really sorry about how rude I have been. Thank you for reading this massive text block.

movie nerds when someone likes something shitty that has had billions of dollars poured into making it as accessible as possible instead of spending hours of their free time finding something they like more

most people aren’t like us, they don’t have the sheer neurodivergency required to be based and like cool things

I never said that Marvel was harmless. It’s disingenuous to even imply I did. The movies are literally military propaganda.

This random Reddit user watching it is harmless, though, or at least, our negging doesn’t reduce the harm. Our insults are nothing but an annoyance that’s trying to pierce an actual social institution of people who “enjoy” (said loosely due to the “quality” of the films) Disney’s media.

These people aren’t brainless, idiotic ghouls who are just going along mindlessly with what they know. They got here because there are a ridiculous number of social pressures that lead people into becoming obsessed with Marvel.

It’s probably one of the only things they talk to their friends about, and not just because they themselves bring it up, but because it’s one of the only forms of shared experience that people have these days, as horrifying as that is. It’s the same thing as celebrities and news stories about them. Just mindless slop that has no real bearing on reality. But people still stay up to date on it because all their friends and their entire social network seems to care about it.

Every single one of these things are all things that insults have no power over. We like to say bullying works, but this is where it’s power ends. Disney has such an intense stranglehold on the West’s culture that all an insult to a person who consumes their content does is just hurt them a little without even remotely changing their behavior.

I despise what Marvel has done to the movie industry but I have literally no reason to despise or hate those who continue to watch the movies. As long as it sucks it sucks. This one person not watching the movie doesn’t magically make it not have any control over the industry, and literally bullying people for watching it is not some sort of cool gamer move. It’s just weird and antisocial. Bullying works with veganism, yeah, but that’s because most people don’t have entire social networks that are partially dependent on eating meat. These people are literally addicted to Marvel. Removing it from their reality would be akin to just making them unable to participate in… maybe at least 60% of conversations their friends have. It’s more akin to trying to bully someone into not eating around other people- You’re not going to be able to do it no matter how hard you try, not without removing their incentivize to in the first place (socialization).

What bothers me is that shitting on people for liking X thing has become it’s own kind of “treat”, a form of slop that people absolutely shit themselves in anger over when someone points out how it’s flawed. Like, Jesus Christ, I am not saying that you can’t criticize the movies I’ve already criticized like 4 times in this thread alone, just maybe don’t be an asshole to random people you’ve never met who are doing nothing wrong? Criticizing works of art, hell, even insinuating that the mere consumption of it is problematic, does not require you to actually consider those who consume it as bad people and in most cases they just blatantly aren’t.

Watching these sorts of weird, reactionary-tasting anger over X person who consumes Y thing is like watching people complain about water flooding all their crops, so they shout at the waterfall until it stops moving. It lacks any sort of analysis, it’s like a ironically and hilariously mindless substitute for actual concern over what these movies do to people

I understand we need to vent our emotions somehow, but actual systemic critique, analysis, and finding solutions to how Marvel has entrenched itself into society is right there and if you aren’t going to do it just because it’s too hard, and would prefer to do something more mindless, then… Yeah! Fair! But maybe don’t criticize other people for not always consuming leftist theory instead of brainless slop, then.

Edit: I’m just tired.

Ok you normally have good takes but
The difference between insulting people and insulting media is like super clear and conflating the two is really stupid???
It isn’t “thought policing” to tell someone to not shit on someone for doing something completely innocuous that probably 90% of people here have done because their friends and family are still obsessed with it

Why are you so defensive about this and not the other 1000 things we mock and hate people for on hexbear dot net?

You obviously haven’t seen me post at all, literally every time some sort of mockery about fundamentally harmless behavior comes up I’ve gotten pissed about it. Literally the only reason I don’t bring it up all the time is because people usually restrain themselves to only dunking on absolute ghouls for being absolute ghouls.

Also watching shitty superhero movies is not even remotely comparable to being a fucking active murderer of minorities, Jesus Christ

What an individualistic attitude towards it.

Do you really think these individual, random fuckers have any power over what kind of content they are really exposed to, what kind of media is socially acceptable?

Yes. I also despise marvel and will say that whenever I want. But the random individuals that make it up aren’t deserving of actual hatred or mockery for enjoying it. Their friends enjoy it. Their friends of friends enjoy it. I’m not saying we should just “let people enjoy things”, I’m saying that our criticisms of the things need to be of the things themselves, and not “infantile mannerisms” or weird moralistic statements about people who fundamentally only really watch this stuff because all their friends talk about it and they want to be fun and cool to their friends.

It is certainly your right to despise others and have whatever feelings you have about them, but it is not your right to express hatred or ridicule them and it is not revolutionary or cool to do it all the time. We are not liberals who “say whatever we want” because it feels good to dunk on the “unenlightened, unwashed masses”. We are socialists who are supposed to actually understand those masses and give them what they want. We are not preachers, we are teachers.

The criticism of Marvel has, frankly, reached a stagnant stage. It is not intense enough. This anger directed towards individual “Disney adults” is fundamentally a misdirection, an individualization of a social issue, a complete stop in the development of any truly revolutionary ideas that could come from our line of criticism.

Yes, dunking on libs who like marvel is extremely fun. But it’s just as brainless and non-constructive as the movies themselves. We don’t actually learn anything from it. We don’t help anything. We like to think we’re decreasing the power of the Marvel panopticon ever so slightly, but our online negging is likely meaningless in the face of the bare truth that these people barely have anything else to live for. Without Marvel slop, they would have nothing, live in a completely barren world with no color or purpose. And it is tempting to despise them for that, to say that we are different because some element of ourselves makes us special and superior.

But what element? Is it mental, physical?

I don’t think so. I think it’s all about social circumstance, and while I might be uniquely lib for this, the magic of bullying people is sort of taken away when I realize that I’m not actually doing some virtuous, revolutionary act. It just feels like kicking a malnutritioned puppy.

weird sex stuff

Do they mean the Volcel police? I suppose they do sort of count as a chastity fetish.

true, nvm

He said “crowd that will turn to fascism” which is unfortunately less funny