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The primary school I went to is 333 years old.
A school has stood on the same spot as my primary school since the years had three numbers.
If we’re being pedantic (and why not!) then the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is actually only 103 years old.
If we’re being fair, a government running without revolution for 250 years is pretty old. Many of the oldest establishments in the US are likely to stand after a revolution or civil war, much like pubs and restaurants in Europe.
Even the yanks on Lemmy seem pretty oblivious to the concept of other countries at best.
How does this guy know enough history to know the age of the US, but not that other countries were around before it? At the very least you’d think he knows it started as a colony.
There’s been some planning and minor media to-do about the 250th anniversary. For example, IIRC there’s a picture of Kid Rock in an incredibly gaudy suit with “250” written on it, taken in the oval office next to Trump.
More proof that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing
Japan and China just be lying about being several thousand years old, I guess.
Even if you consider each Chinese dynasty to be a distinct nation (I wouldn’t, but even if you did) there are several dynasties that lasted well over 250 years.
I’m curious why you wouldn’t consider many of the Chinese dynasties their own countries, in a way?
The culture and history are largely consistent, including after Confucius the bureaucratic structure, which survived through many dynasties until Mao, and even the communist revolution didn’t completely wipe the influence of Confucius.
I feel like similar things could be said of many places in the world, but surely you wouldn’t consider, say, the country of India to stretch as far back? Or Italy? Turkey?
Even sticking with China, surely the mongol led Yuan dynasty is worth separating from before and after it, if you’re considering modern borders. Like, does Mongolia get the same claim as China does in that case for oldest country? It kinda becomes a fuzzy question to me. There’s got to be a better academically defined way.
India probably, yeah. Italy as a national identity didn’t exist until 1861, and Germany until 1871, and there are still regions in both countries with strong identities like Bavaria. Culture outlasts constitutions.
There’s an argument to be made that a new system of government makes it a new country. Like, the absolutist monarchy of France isn’t the same country as the republic of France. Especially if the borders change, too. Detto for China and Japan. But even conceding that, OOP is full of shit.
Detto
It’s dito in English and as far as I know mostly in German too. Aber vielleicht macht ihr das in Österreich anders, näher am Italienischen? Hier in der Schweiz habe ich detto noch nicht angetroffen.
Meine Familie ist halb Süd- halb Nordtirol, also liegt die Nähe zum Italienischen nahe. Bzw vielleicht sogar zum Ladinischen (ähnlich Romansch), das sprechen meine Verwandten noch eher als Italienisch. So wie ichs gewohnt bin heisst Dito ‘mir geht es gleich wie dir’ und detto ‘das ist gleich wie beim anderen’, also ein leichter Bedeutungsunterschied. Ich find Dialekte immer sehr spannend, danke für den Input!
Oh wow, dass es sogar zwei unterschiedliche Bedeutungen gibt, ist interessant, danke dir!
There is an argument to be made about that. Not a very convincing one though.
If neither a change in borders nor a change in governance makes a new country, every country is as old as the earth. Anarchy is a mode of governance, too, even though it’s a lack thereof.
Especially if the borders change, too.
Oh, so the US really only dates back to 1959.
Hell if change of government type is enough that makes the US what, 4 months old?
Roman Empire
See, now that is where one gets nitpicky about the idea of “nation” and this gets performatively nerdy.
That was my first reaction: what do we mean by a “nation?” Is it performatively nerdy? Haha, I feel authentically nerdy and abuzz with questions!
We talking about a particular government/regime or just some continuity of format? Which borders, ie which constituent territories? Do ethnic tribes count? Does the pub and it’s chain of ownership and hereditary patronage count?
Pick the date the roman empire ceased to exist
Even the shortest reasonable date is well over 250 years.
I know, it’s just a reference to a history meme posted recently
Where else would you go to wait for all this to blow over?
…Oxford University just looming on the horizon…
Which has been part of the British nation for 224 years.
…and had people teaching there since 1096…
Which would have been an almost unrecognisable nation.
Changing the goalposts I see.
The house I grew up in is much older than the USA’s inependance. It’s not the oldest building in town.
The town’s church is ~300 years older than Christopher Collumbus’ arrival in the Americas. If it didn’t burn twice, and didn’t had to be rebuilt twice, if would have been a few 100s of years older.
There are countless towns and cities with buildings older than the USA at every street corner here. That person obviously never been to Europe.
yeah the town i grew up in celebrated its 750th recently. it’s not even close.
In Japanese tradition, you count the age of the building’s soul. Even if it burns down and you rebuild it, the age of the building doesn’t reset to 0.
I don’t have any references for this, just my experience.
i’d say this sorta applies in the rest of the world, if it’s rebuilt in the right way people will go “it’s 1200 years old but it got bombed to shit and rebuilt after WW2”
The Ottomans would like a word I think, and maybe the Assyrians
Just because the alignment of nation and state into nation state happened to innovate around the late 18th century, like the US independence, does not mean that the US is the only nation (state) from that era.
There is not much information density in the idea that “no nation existed for longer than 250 years” when the very idea of nation state is as old itself and nations (or nationes) and states existed for much, much longer than that.
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